Reel Connection, Real Resistance: A conversation between Stacy Nakell and Dr. Elliot Zeisel, Audry Steele, Dr. Katherine Mitchell, Dr. Chap Attwell, Reginald Murph, David Rothhouser, and Elizabeth Schneider about the Film-Based Group Leadership Learning Lab held on 11/1/25 through AGPS

This interview has been edited for clarity and flow.

Stacy: Hello everyone. I am Stacy Nakell, longtime member of AGPS, and I'm thrilled to invite you all to this conversation with our leader and panelist of our upcoming November 1st learning lab entitled Reel Connection, Real Resistance, a film-based group leadership learning lab, which is based on the film the Schopenhauer Project by Elliot Zeisel. So first, could someone start with what is a learning lab? 

Audrey: We will be having a live learning experience along with screening a film, which is one of the first films that I've seen that so accurately captures group therapy in dramatic form. Then we'll have a live experience of being in a group along with some teaching elements. So altogether, it's a very live, experiential process using film and live group. With Austin being the live music capital of the world, and a film loving community this will be a great place to hold our first lab.

David: There are two main events that are juxtaposed. Watching the film in the morning and having an experience of being a member of a small process group in the afternoon. There will be a bit of didactic before and large group conversation after each event. So there will be ample time for all participants to work together to make meaning of those two learning experiences.

Elliot: As David said we will present didactic material. The film will help us integrate understanding the didactic material. We'll have large group discussions that will give the audience a chance to interact with us. And then eventually you'll have a small group experience in the afternoon where you might get to experience some of the things that we've talked about and identified in the large group discussions. So we’ll be learning in action, learning in connection. 

Elizabeth: And we've identified some group therapy concepts that will be discussed and will run through the film and the live experience later in the afternoon. 

Reginald: There are three lenses: containment, immediacy, and resistance. We will talk briefly on all three of these and demonstrate how they are illustrated in the film. 

Elliot: The here and now process is one in which focuses on the moment. We will invite people to talk about their process in real time, either about themselves or in their relationships with people in the circle. If they do that, they're going to find out a whole lot more about themselves, about their relationships. They’re going to be able to use the experience of the film and the large group discussion and small groups toward the goal of acquiring some new information about themselves as members of a group and leaders of a group. 

Chap: I love Elliot's focus on the immediacy component of the group. In an ideal world, there will be immediacy in the small group, along with the other components. There will be a containment process that's named through the introduction of the group agreements. All the leaders will be educated and trained and standardized around those agreements. And I hope there's some resistance to immediacy as well, or otherwise we wouldn't be able to round out the triangle. 

Elliot: I hope it wasn't suggested too strongly before that we've got all this worked out as a group, as a panel. We're still working on all these lenses too, on the lens of containment, on the lens of immediacy and the lens of resistance. Because as a group, we're helping each other go forward in the process and come in contact with the parts of ourselves that might be reluctant to succeed at this or the parts of ourselves that are excited about succeeding at this and the consequences that follow. So it's a very live subject for us as presenters, just as it's going to be alive for the people who attend the learning lab. 

Stacy: I remember that when I sat down for my first demo group in an AGPS workshop, terror was the thing that came up for me. This was related to my awareness of wanting to be forthcoming but that these are my colleagues who I want to see me as a competent professional, and there's a tension between those two things.

Chap: With resistance we try not to just name it but to join it. For example, if someone were apprehensive about being in a small group, I might say, “That's so smart! Why on earth would you want to be here in this kind of setting with a bunch of colleagues? That sounds markedly insane to me,” or something like that. To really join them in normalizing that reaction of fear. 

Dave: Elizabeth and I represent the subgroup working on the lens of containment. And when I hear you mention terror, I think, well, terror and excitement go hand in hand. So I would hope people would feel some tinge of what you are talking about but not so much that it makes it hard to walk into the room. Terror means something unknown could happen! But if it’s too much we have to retreat into self-protection. Part of our work in becoming a team and designing this event, it is important to help contain participants’ anxiety about what might come up. We want people to have a rich and new experience without having a dangerous experience.

Katherine: As group leaders, there's value in bringing together both the self-disclosing side and the professional ego. I think Elliot actually demonstrates this beautifully in the film, adding in some self-disclosure while being a very containing professional leader. 

Stacy: It's nice to hear that there will be some modeling of that tension and vulnerability. And also I hear in there that although there's this excitement about sharing and this new lab for people to learn, there's also a sense of not wanting people to be injured or leave with injuries, which I know in our Austin community is a very important thing to hold in mind.

Elliot: Nobody’s coming to be injured. They may feel injured in the moment, hopefully would lead to more talking and consequently more understanding. I want to build on what Katie said and invite people from the community who are not therapists to think about attending a learning lab because this work we're doing and the lenses we've developed, the containment, the immediacy, and the resistance lenses apply to anyone who works in small group process. You could be a teacher, you could be a member of a work group solving a problem, you could be part of a community group, a parent who runs a group at home, this work and the film and the discussion that's going to follow has application to anyone who works in small group process. So we invite you to come, we invite you to contribute your voice to this rich environment we are hoping to create.

Stacy: We just have a few minutes left together, and I think you all have named some things you're hoping participants come away with, but I wanted to just offer that question again to see how you would like people to feel at the end of this full day of group experience. 

David: I want to take that from a slightly different angle. We want people to come in with hopes and desires for themselves as members and leaders of groups. We welcome people to think about what they want to learn on the way in, bring your wishes, hopes, dreams about yourself as a developing leader of small groups.

Chap: With that goal in mind, David, I would hope that people could leave the group having been safe enough to feel unsafe and take some risks and really come out of it proud that they learned something new that they didn't have otherwise, that they could then apply to their lives or groups moving forward. 

Audrey: I want people to leave wanting more!